grant:Also - is there any other biblical reference to dove besides the one in Noah?
Evan: grant:Also - is there any other biblical reference to dove besides the one in Noah?Quite a few.
The fish, on the other hand, is the ancient badge of priestliness and the symbol of the Nasorean party; the Christians used it at the end of the first century AD. The word "Nasorean" is a form of the word "Nazrani" that means "little fish" and "Christians" in modern Arab and in old Aramaic.
Tuna Ghost:Also: what's with fish and Christianity?
A Nazarite (??????) was a Jew who had taken special vows of dedication to the Lord whereby he abstained for a specified period of time from using alcohol and grape products, cutting his hair, and approaching corpses. At the end of the period he was required to immerse himself in water. Thus the baptism of Jesus (Matthew 3:13-15) by his relative John the Baptist could have been done "to fulfil all righteousness" at the ending of a nazirite vow. However, following his baptism, the gospels give no reason to suppose Jesus took another Nazirite vow until The Last Supper, (see Mark 14:25). Matthew 2:23 says of Yeshua` (Jesus), "And he came and dwelt in a city called Nazareth: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophets, He shall be called a Nazarene." But had the prophets said 'Nazarene' or 'Nazarite'? It appears that they said He shall be called a Nazarite because reference bibles state that the prophecy cited in Matt. 2:23 is in reference to Judges 13:5 concerning Samson the Nazarite, and there is no word translated Nazarene or any reference to a city of 'Nazareth' in the Hebrew Scriptures. Luke 1:15 describes John the Baptist as a Nazarite from birth. James the Just was described as a Nazarite in Epiphanius' Panarion 29.4 ....The word nazara, "truth", another gnostic concept popularized through the Gospel of Philip: "The apostles that came before us called him Jesus Nazarene the Christ ..."Nazara" is the "Truth". Therefore 'Nazarenos' is "The One of the Truth" ..." (Gospel of Philip, 47)...The word nosri which means "one who keeps (guard over)" or "one who observes" the same name used by spiritual leaders (see for example Yeshu Ha-Notzri) of a pre-Christian gnostic sect which evolved into the Mandaean religion.......The Greek transliteration ????????? (Nazareinos, from which the English "Nazarene" derived) of Neitzër (???), which is the Hebrew term meaning "offshoot(s)", especially from the branches of an olive tree (instead referring to a wicker in Modern Hebrew).
grant:The identity of the sons of Zebedee are a fun biblical puzzle, since there are (possibly) two Jameses and two Johns among the apostles. John Zebedee is definitely a pillar, but the James who's a pillar might be James the Less, not Zebedee. Unless they're the same James.
grant:Why would Mark be "anti-Pillar"? He's "less Jewish"?
Although the book is anonymous, apart from the ancient heading "According to Mark" in manuscripts, it has traditionally been assigned to John Mark, in whose mother's house (at Jerusalem) Christians assembled (Acts 12:12). This Mark was a cousin of Barnabas (Col 4:10) and accompanied Barnabas and Paul on a missionary journey (Acts 12:25; 13:3; 15:36- 39). He appears in Pauline letters (2 Tim 4:11; Philippians 1:24) and with Peter (1 Peter 5:13). Papias (ca. A.D. 135) described Mark as Peter's "interpreter," a view found in other patristic writers....Traditionally, the gospel is said to have been written shortly before A.D. 70 in Rome, at a time of impending persecution and when destruction loomed over Jerusalem. Its audience seems to have been Gentile, unfamiliar with Jewish customs (hence Mark 7:3-4, 11). The book aimed to equip such Christians to stand faithful in the face of persecution (Mark 13:9-13), while going on with the proclamation of the gospel begun in Galilee (Mark 13:10; 14:9). Modern research often proposes as the author an unknown Hellenistic Jewish Christian, possibly in Syria, and perhaps shortly after the year 70.
21 Then they came to Capernaum, and on the sabbath he entered the synagogue and taught.22 The people were astonished at his teaching, for he taught them as one having authority and not as the scribes.23 In their synagogue was a man with an unclean spirit;24 he cried out, "What have you to do with us, Jesus of Nazareth? Have you come to destroy us? I know who you are--the Holy One of God!"25 Jesus rebuked him and said, "Quiet! Come out of him!"26 The unclean spirit convulsed him and with a loud cry came out of him.27 All were amazed and asked one another, "What is this? A new teaching with authority. He commands even the unclean spirits and they obey him."
The Holy One of God: not a confession but an attempt to ward off Jesus' power, reflecting the notion that use of the precise name of an opposing spirit would guarantee mastery over him. Jesus silenced the cry of the unclean spirit and drove him out of the man.
NAB translation:28 His fame spread everywhere throughout the whole region of Galilee.29 On leaving the synagogue he entered the house of Simon and Andrew with James and John.30 Simon's mother-in-law lay sick with a fever. They immediately told him about her.31 He approached, grasped her hand, and helped her up. Then the fever left her and she waited on them.32 When it was evening, after sunset, they brought to him all who were ill or possessed by demons.33 The whole town was gathered at the door.34 He cured many who were sick with various diseases, and he drove out many demons, not permitting them to speak because they knew him.35 Rising very early before dawn, he left and went off to a deserted place, where he prayed.36 Simon and those who were with him pursued him37 and on finding him said, "Everyone is looking for you."38 He told them, "Let us go on to the nearby villages that I may preach there also. For this purpose have I come."39 So he went into their synagogues, preaching and driving out demons throughout the whole of Galilee.40 A leper came to him (and kneeling down) begged him and said, "If you wish, you can make me clean."41 Moved with pity, he stretched out his hand, touched him, and said to him, "I do will it. Be made clean."42 The leprosy left him immediately, and he was made clean.43 Then, warning him sternly, he dismissed him at once.44 Then he said to him, "See that you tell no one anything, but go, show yourself to the priest and offer for your cleansing what Moses prescribed; that will be proof for them."45 The man went away and began to publicize the whole matter. He spread the report abroad so that it was impossible for Jesus to enter a town openly. He remained outside in deserted places, and people kept coming to him from everywhere.
NAB translation1 When Jesus returned to Capernaum after some days, it became known that he was at home.2 Many gathered together so that there was no longer room for them, not even around the door, and he preached the word to them.3 They came bringing to him a paralytic carried by four men.4 Unable to get near Jesus because of the crowd, they opened up the roof above him. After they had broken through, they let down the mat on which the paralytic was lying.5 When Jesus saw their faith, he said to the paralytic, "Child, your sins are forgiven."6 Now some of the scribes were sitting there asking themselves,7 "Why does this man speak that way? He is blaspheming. Who but God alone can forgive sins?"8 Jesus immediately knew in his mind what they were thinking to themselves, so he said, "Why are you thinking such things in your hearts?9 Which is easier, to say to the paralytic, 'Your sins are forgiven,' or to say, 'Rise, pick up your mat and walk'?10 But that you may know that the Son of Man has authority to forgive sins on earth"--11 he said to the paralytic, "I say to you, rise, pick up your mat, and go home."12 He rose, picked up his mat at once, and went away in the sight of everyone. They were all astounded and glorified God, saying, "We have never seen anything like this."
13 Jesus went out again beside the lake; the whole crowd gathered around him, and he taught them. 14 As he was walking along, he saw Levi son of Alphaeus sitting at the tax booth, and he said to him, "Follow me." And he got up and followed him.15 And as he sat at dinner in Levi's house, many tax-collectors and sinners were also sitting with Jesus and his disciples -- for there were many who followed him. 16 When the scribes of the Pharisees saw that he was eating with sinners and tax-collectors, they said to his disciples, "Why does he eat with tax-collectors and sinners?" 17 When Jesus heard this, he said to them, "Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick; I have come to call not the righteous but sinners."18 Now Johns disciples and the Pharisees were fasting; and people came and said to him, "Why do Johns disciples and the disciples of the Pharisees fast, but your disciples do not fast?"19 Jesus said to them, "The wedding-guests cannot fast while the bridegroom is with them, can they? As long as they have the bridegroom with them, they cannot fast. 20 The days will come when the bridegroom is taken away from them, and then they will fast on that day.21 "No one sews a piece of unshrunk cloth on an old cloak; otherwise, the patch pulls away from it, the new from the old, and a worse tear is made. 22 And no one puts new wine into old wineskins; otherwise, the wine will burst the skins, and the wine is lost, and so are the skins; but one puts new wine into fresh wineskins."23 One sabbath he was going through the cornfields; and as they made their way his disciples began to pluck heads of grain. 24 The Pharisees said to him, "Look, why are they doing what is not lawful on the sabbath?"25 And he said to them, "Have you never read what David did when he and his companions were hungry and in need of food? 26 He entered the house of God, when Abiathar was high priest, and ate the bread of the Presence, which it is not lawful for any but the priests to eat, and he gave some to his companions." 27 Then he said to them, "The sabbath was made for humankind, and not humankind for the sabbath; 28 so the Son of Man is lord even of the sabbath."
Apophatic Anarchos:I read somewhere that the phrase bene elohim is a feminine form. If you look at the greek grigori that also suggests some relevance to the the word egregore.
Evan:Some suggest the term "Son of Man" simply was a Semitic idiom meaning "a person," "a human being," "humanity," or simply "I" or "me." Others suggest it was used to refer to a divine, semi-divine, or messianic figure, as an allusion to a character in the Book of Daniel (7:13): "there came with the clouds of the sky one like a son of man . . ." (Even though to me this only seems to mean "a supernatural creature that looked human.") And yet others note that in the Gospel of Mark Jesus always uses it in the third person, possibly about a figure yet to come.So Jesus's use of the term may have one of (at least) four different meanings: (1) to refer to himself as a divine or quasi-divine being, (2) to refer to himself as a human being, (3) to refer to a divine or quasi-divine being yet to come, or (4) to refer to human beings in general.
The phrase 'Son of Man' appears with great frequency in Ezekiel, used by the Lord GOD when addressing Ezekiel:e.g. 6:2 "Son of man, set your face toward the mountains of Israel; prophesy against them"
I take Evan's point that in Daniel's vision he is seeing a human who appeared to be a supernatural being.
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