Can't go wrong with the New York Dolls. There was also The Stooges

Punk, UK style

(The Lurkers were big in Fulham, West London, where I grew up, so I have a soft spot for them)

 

I first came across punk on the arts programme So It Goes, based in Manchester and, I think, at the time only shown in the Northwest of England.

One of my early favourites was the punk poet John Cooper Clarke

More Manchester mayhem

With U.K. punk, I'd start with the Sex Pistols and Clash (who everyone has seen and heard),

the Damned in London


the Buzzcocks in Manchester


and Stiff Little Fingers in Belfast.


Just saw SLF in NY on Friday.  (Well, half of 'em plus two other guys.)

Love the photo.

My local scene was the New York scene, but I didn't go to a single punk show until college.

Lived most of my life within half an hour of CBGB (and lived three blocks away for a decade), but never actually entered until it closed and turned into a John Varvatos clothing store. 

(Never bought one of the iconic t-shirts either.)

That first New York Dolls link is fucking awesome. Thanks. I love the little Patti Smith I've heard ("Piss Factory" mostly) so looking forwards to checking this out.

"Gloria" is a slow build, but it's worth it.

Here's one off the Buzzcocks first record. The self released ep Spiral Scratch. And I've got an original copy. One of my prized possessions

After singer Howard Devoto left he formed Magazine

Punk had lots of great female performers

After the Sex Pistols folded Rotten returned with this, the best song ever

I insist that nobody under the age of 35 be allowed to participate in this thread as music that young people like is, by definition, Not Proper Punk. 

Careful -- I think we could set the age gate a bit higher than 35 . . .

I never really understood it when 'grunge' was described as punk - I remember getting quite curmudgeonly and muttering, "long hair? plaid shirts? Punk was far more stylish back in the day...grmphh mmmphhh" <channelling Bagpuss's Professor Yaffle> but would anyone care to present a counter-argument?

Safety pins through the face, covered in other people gob (I spit on their British phlegm!) shit stopper drainpipe kecks, sugar and water to make your hair spikey, zips everywhere, stencilled slogans. Not to mention the obscene fluffy jumpers of Captain Sensible. And such great names - Rat Scabies, Jet Black, Poly Styrene, Lester Square, Richard Hell and the Voidoids, Jello Biafra, Wreckless Eric, Tory Crimes, Ray Gunn, Dee Generate, Vic Sinex (okay, I made that last one up).

I never really understood it when 'grunge' was described as punk - I remember getting quite curmudgeonly and muttering, "long hair? plaid shirts? Punk was far more stylish back in the day...

Just focus on the music rather than the clothes and hairstyles.

Grunge was a working class Pacific Northwest spin on American 80s hardcore (Flipper, Suicidal Tendencies, Circle Jerks, Bad Brains, etc.), with a hefty dose of 70s metal (in the guitars) and (among the brighter bands) a bit of an 80s alternative/college/indie post-punk, post-hardcore vibe (Hüsker Dü, Sonic Youth, the Minutemen, the Replacements). 

Certainly a punk pedigree. 

And plaid flannel shirts were warm -- and working class kids in Seattle couldn't afford Vivienne Westwood.

And don't you think these fellows had style?

Feh to Soo Catwoman, Jordan, and Siouxie.

(I almost said "feh" to Paul Weller, but I just can't do it.)

Evan said: and working class kids in Seattle couldn't afford Vivienne Westwood.

I didn't mean style as in Vivenne Westwood, I certainly couldn't afford those Kings Road punk fashions and nor did my mates as I recall. Was more about scouring charity shops for odd/interesting items. I take your point about focussing on the music though.

Hmm, I don't know about that. To me the most interesting thing about The Sex Pistols (fer instance) *is* the ideas and the fashion. The music was utter shite IMO and only saved by the charisma of an angry John Lydon and Talcy Malcy's situationist pretensions via way of art school. Can't speak with the same confidence about other bands but the ideas, and the why of how they manifested when they did is really interesting to me.

Also, punk rock = chaos magic. Any takers on this one? 

Alistair from Green Galloway has written a lot about the crossover between the two actually from the perspective of someone who was actually there. When I get a moment I'll go through his bloke and find some key bits.

DannyL said: The music was utter shite IMO

The Sex Pistols were a 'singles band' but Pretty Vacant is not shite surely? And as for albums, the Clash's 1st? Buzzcocks, Damned - some catchy tunes?!

Oh, I guess so. Just thing the Pistols in particular are always overrated and their iconic significance blurs the reception of their music.  

Pistols is v overrated musically, although they've got the odd belting tunes.

People might have bought The Sex Pistols' albums at least in part because of the fashion, but they didn't play their albums -- over and over again -- because of the fashion.

The music (at least pre-Sid) was genuinely astonishing.

Johnny Rotten's voice was a thing of legend -- brutal intelligence and sardonic humor conveyed through everything from a rasp to a howl to a shriek.  (I think the "Right!  Now!" and laugh at the beginning of "Anarchy in the U.K." is one of the greatest vocal moments in all of rock, if not all of music.)  Glen Matlock provided a solid and remarkably melodic foundation on bass.  Steve Jones and Paul Cook bashed things out a bit, but it gave a fresh sort of brashness, spontaneity, and energy to the proceedings.  And Lydon's lyrics were genius: everything from rhyming "antichrist" with "anarchist" to stunning lines of poetry like "we're the flowers in the dustbin."  All delivered in a ferocious roar with tons of attitude and mind-blowing charisma.

They're not even one of my favorite bands, but I'll give them credit where credit is due.

Dang.  I haven't thought this much about music in . . . well, quite a long time.

Old and distracted by the demands of everyday life, that's me.

Captain Sensible once likened the Sex Pistols to a pub band fronted by Albert Steptoe. I think he was jealous.

For the under-35:
I can't tell if these guys are being consciously retro or if it's just about grabbing instruments and playing something that sounds cool:



That's a 2010 release from a Florida band that I'd call punk. I don't know - it's hard to tell from the PR if they think of themselves as reconstructionists or just as a band, you know? The last thing they recorded was at Jack White's Third Man Records, which is kind of a strange space, culturally - I never know how much the quote marks belong around "authentic" when talking about how "authentic" the place is. It's an analog studio that records to 8-track tape, usually in one take, which is kind of unheard of nowadays. Except, you know, now it is.

That sounds pretty good Grant. Don't know if I'd call it punk in light of the first wave. It's more like some of the stuff that came out mid to late 90s on K Records, Drag City etc. Pavement, Yo La Tengo, Beat Happening - that kinda thing.

Mordant Carnival said: I insist that nobody under the age of 35 be allowed to participate in this thread as music that young people like is, by definition, Not Proper Punk. 

Evan said: Careful -- I think we could set the age gate a bit higher than 35 . . .

careful there, i'm 36 and i remember most of those bands!

the sex pistols were the introduction to punk for me, when i was in 8th grade. quickly followed by the ramones, the dead kennedys, and minor threat. this was one of my favorites songs back then:

genlob said: Captain Sensible once likened the Sex Pistols to a pub band fronted by Albert Steptoe.

Like that's a bad thing?

Grotto of Nolte said: Don't know if I'd call it punk in light of the first wave. It's more like some of the stuff that came out mid to late 90s on K Records....

See, that stuff (at the time) reminded me of some of the stuff that Husker Du was doing in a quieter mode, or some of the moodier Alternative Tentacles bands:


Definitely part of a spectrum that had punk in it somewhere.

If you wish, the whole concept is pretty nebulous anyway. Compare Stooges and Kennedys - there's a musical ocean between them in many ways.

Yes on the nebulous.

Punk (for ME, again) also seems like one of the last times local sounds mattered - like the difference between the Midwest and the California and the New York and the English bands was kind of noticeable. Although I guess there are even exceptions to that.

Exceptions being the rule.

----

One of my pet obsessions is charting the tree of influences around Devo. They got lumped into punk I think because no one knew what else to do with them... although they actually wound up recording with Brian Eno (prog!) thanks to being championed by Iggy Pop (punk!) and David Bowie (glam!). That and they invited a certain level of loathing from their audiences.



There seemed to be something... odd... about a few other bands from the Midwest at the same time.

There was the Embarrassment, who sounded a lot like West Coast New Wave bands from, like, 5 years in the future:

(Jacuzzi Boys really remind me of The Embarrassment more than anything.)

And there was The Cramps, who sounded like, well, heartland rockabilly from 15 years in the past:


Although they were kind of a New York band, a lot of their musical/trash culture background comes right out of Ohio creature feature AM disc jockey stuff.

I'm going to hide here until the prog thread goes away

There were a few bands around that were'nt actually punk but got caught up in the frenzy. From the Rickenbackertastic Jam
and the erstwhile Guildford Stranglers
to the music hall funk of Ian Dury

I totally never understood how the Jam wound up as "punk." I mean, "That's Entertainment" was a great song and all, but....

Mordant Carnival said: I insist that nobody under the age of 35 be allowed to participate in this thread as music that young people like is, by definition, Not Proper Punk.

*Whew* I'm off the hook!

--Ember--

Why do Andy Cameron and the Stranglers have the same typeface/background in their videos? I find that more disturbing than the mere fact of Andy Cameron's existence.

Something to mull over. I just learned what the "SST" in "SST Records" really stood for. I always thought it was "Super-Sonic Transport," like the military jets. But no, it was "Solid State Transmitters," because Greg Ginn started out selling HAM radio equipment. I guess if Black Flag hadn't worked out, he might've wound up setting up local BBSes or pirate radio stations.

"Maybe it was from Greg's experience with ham radios, but he believed if
you try, you can get things beyond your little group." - Mike Watt (of the Minutemen).

Is Jim Carroll punk? 

I see AllMusic lists him as New Wave, Punk/New Wave, Punk, Proto-Punk, New York Punk, and American Punk, so I'll assume so.

Most people know The Basketball Diaries and "People Who Died."  But I always liked this song best.

And Grant, I assume you appreciate his song "Catholic Boy."

Actually, the Jim Carroll that I became aware of first (having heard "People Who
Died" on the radio a few times years earlier but not really registering
who did it) was "Guitar Voodoo", a spoken-word piece on an
Alternative Tentacles (?) comp of spoken-word pieces (this one: http://www.amazon.com/Sound-Counter-Culture-Various-Artists/dp/B000008KZJ).

I can't find that marvelously weird piece, but almost as good was the track before it, by Danny Sugarman, about the Doors and the death of the hippie dream:

Oh, man, and Henry Rollins raving about Black Sabbath. "Rejection HURTS, man!"

I will have to listen to 'Iron Man' again after that. BTW should we have a metal thread??

 Punk or folk? 

Either way, it seems appropriate at the moment.

I'm just glad to find that other people are aware of Naked Raygun. Best band to come out of the highly underrated Chicago punk scene, IMO.  Here's more to chaw on:



"Muscle beach is now Pork Chop Hill."

Also, Chicago punk gave us Steve Albini, who engineered albums by The Breeders, Helmet, Nirvana, The Jesus Lizard, Bush, PJ Harvey, Superchunk, Veruca Salt (!), and more. So there's another tendril linking punk and alternative/grunge music.

If you're interested, check out You Weren't There, a wide-ranging and necessary overview of the Chicago punk scene.

Or Steve Albini's latest thing - an opinionated, in-your-face, old-fashioned-methods, DIY cooking blog.

http://mariobatalivoice.blogspot.com/

He's a bricklayer. He kills what he eats. (Or, apparently, swings by a gourmet Italian grocery, which is almost the same thing.)

There was a strange relationship between punk and surf:


Dead Milkmen - "Surfin' Cow"
Not sure exactly how that came to be. I guess because surf was kind of (at the time) non-commercial and obscure and not that hard to make sound good.

Or maybe it was that there was such a prominent California scene that had a longer memory than one might guess....


Jodie Foster's Army - "Baja"

This is my punk rock:



I remember this show. It got so crazy that at one point they killed the power. To be fair, Atari Teenage Riot at the Queen Elizabeth Hall was always going to be a tricky prospect for the staff :) John Peel was behind it, see.

These guys were equally important to me:



Punk more in attitude than sound. Seeing them at the Union Chapel as an impressionable teen, they projected the flickering word "HOPE" above the lecturn, scratched onto super 8 and paired with the image of a black dog falling in an infinite loop.

I dread to think how much they have influenced my life.