All Discussions - Liminal Nation

Published! Performing! Now Showing!

freektemple — Fri, 09 Jan 2009 10:57:02 -0500

It came to my attention that some Liminal Nation members have just been published in an anthology.

Personally, I like the idea of reading a book or article written by someone I may interact with. I also think that Liminal Nation is a community and it's important to support people in one's community...

Maybe it's seen as spam, or maybe it's crass, but I believe that if you are proud of your work you should toot your own horn a bit.

So if you have published a book, written an article, released a CD, made a movie, are producing a play, or anything similar: POST IT HERE!!! because I'd like to know and support you if I can.

Riddle Me This

Evan — Sun, 26 May 2013 09:06:05 -0400

In Lateshift we were discussing a Middle English riddle:

Erthe toc of erthe erthe wyth woh.
Erthe other erthe to the erthe droh.
Erthe leyde erthe in erthene throh.
Tho heuede erthe of erthe erthe ynoh.

Which roughly means:

Earth took of earth earth with woe.
Earth other earth to the earth drew.
Earth laid earth in earthen trough.
Then had earth of earth earth enough.

If considered as a riddle, I'd say the answer is "a man is struck by other men, dies, and is buried, as his life is over."

Riddles used to be popular entertainment for adults, with books like Amusing Questions (1511) and The Booke of Merry Riddles, together with proper Questions and witty Proverbs to make pleasant pastime (1692).

Nowadays these sorts of riddles might be best known from The Hobbit, and "Riddles in the Dark." Some of them just require an answer, and some of them require . . . a little something more.

And now here are three. (I have plenty more.)

As I was walking in a field of wheat,
I picked up something good to eat;
Neither fish, flesh, fowl, nor bone,
I kept it till it ran alone.

A shoemaker makes shoes without leather,
With all the four elements together,
Fire, Water, Earth, Air,
And every customer takes two pair.

Every lady in this land
Has twenty nails upon each hand
Five and twenty on hands and feet
All this is true without deceit.

No looking them up.

Show Tunes and Musicals

Evan — Fri, 10 Jun 2011 11:16:27 -0400

All right, damn it, here it is.

And where else to start but the greatest musical of all time? Music by Leonard Bernstein, lyrics by Stephen Sondheim, dance and direction by Jerome Robbins. Jazzy, playful, lyrical, hip. And cool.

Speaking of Sondheim, here's Bernadette Peters' epic performance of "Rose's Turn," from Gypsy, at the Tony Awards. She was near total collapse from a viral infection, but The Show Must Go On.

And shifting gears a bit, here's Bob Fosse (yes, Mr. "Jazz Hands" himself) in the early days, dancing with Gwen Verdon in Damn Yankees.

Compare to Fosse in the 70s in The Little Prince. The music is mediocre, but check out the dancing (starting around 3:00).

Hope nobody steals those moves.

Artificers of Fraud - promotion and ideas

DannyL — Mon, 17 Jun 2013 08:48:15 -0400

Hello

Most of you who know me will know of my interest in the works of Wilhelm Reich. I think Reich's work is an amazing treasure trove of insight. . I feel it's worth trying to comprehend his work in it's breadth as it's a complete worldview which has many wise thing to say about us, our characters and how we might nuture life. IHis stimulates and challenges in equal measure My interest has been largely been fanned, fed and sustained through my friend Peter Jones, who has his first book out, thus this thread.

The book is called Artificers of Fraud and is about Reich's microscopy experiments and their connection with the work of pioneering biologist Robert Brown, and how this may have been covered over and is excluded from scientific history. The second half of the book gives details on how one might carry out the experiments oneself. Gyrus has kindly knocked up a paypal page which can be found here: http://orgonomyuk.org.uk/artificers-of-fraud/

I would ask people - if you've the slightest bit of interest in Reich's work, please buy a copy if you can. Not only will be exploring some well hidden scientific byways, you'll also be supporting Peter's work and helping keep the near-extnguished flame of Reich's work alive that little bit longer. Thanks a lot.

Bleach (Manga)

Shin — Thu, 07 Jul 2011 16:01:31 -0400

This is the thread for discussing the manga series Bleach by Tite Kubo. SPOILERS.

As several people here are fans of this series it seems appropriate to continue the conversations we've been having on other sites that start with B and F. Apologies to people who may be at an earlier stage in the series and not caught up, but this thread begins as at the current Chapter 455 ('End of the Bond: 1') and will, once again, be laden with SPOILERS.

Meta - about using divination

wonderland — Thu, 06 Dec 2012 05:59:35 -0500

Would other people like to have a disucssion about divination, the whys and why nots of using divination systems of various kinds, or not doing so? I've been thinking about this recently. When is divination a good idea? Are there times when it is not a good idea? Why not?

I have been observing something in myself that has led up to this. I have been reading up @grant's excellent thread on the Book of Changes and occasionally doing readings for myself recently. I love the meditation images, especially the pointers in the text towards what right conduct would look like. I have also encountered a hesitation in myself about using it and I thought I would write here to examine it. I think when I am reaching for divination it's because I am ill at ease with my unknowing in that moment (am I saying something too obvious here?); and perhaps I am avoiding being present to what is real for me right then.

I am looking into my spiritual traidition on the Quaker path for context on this. I think the traditional viewpoint would be that since the living presence of God is everywhere available unmediated, why would one consult an oracle? I have been leaning into this recently - realizing that the 'stuff' which is going on for me, the tangle of impulses and reactions within me are part of the spiritual/intellectual work that I need to do. So consulting an oracle could be seen as a way of avoiding being present to what is real for me right now.

In what feel like my best moments, I have found that being willing to be truly present to what is real for me unfolds its own answers. In my terms it's like my connection with, my awareness of the living holy presence scaffolds my understanding so that I can bear to see what is, and what is becoming, and find my way to peace with that, and to clarity about what actions and changes are necessary for me in that light. When the space opens out from having done that work it is an amazing resonant space of living in flowing rightness.

So why would I be avoiding that? Because facing up to the lessons I have to learn is almost always uncomfortable. Perhaps that is the clue I need: when I am not feeling equal to simply being present to the work of love in what is present with me, I feel the need to add something to it? Perhaps the use of an artifical oracle can be a kindness that I can offer myself, when my own spiritual weakness is particularly apparent? But would indulging such a weakness represent a good choice or a poor one, in terms of my development as a person?

I think there's also a layer of hesitation in me about engaging in too light a fashion with a wisdom tradition. I believe that all true paths followed in sincerity will lead a person into the larger truth; but also that people can confuse themselves, and avoid doing the necessary spiritual work which deep engagement with a 'home' tradition could catalyze, by engaging too lightly with materials from outside their own spiritual tradition. I have a sense that the layers of meaning are deep, and should be respected. Perhaps I am criticizing myself for not engaging seriously enough, and I should sign up for lessons in reading ancient chinese scripts, or save up for some of the great books @grant and others recommend, if I am intending to consult the Book of Changes?

I think I am a slow learner in many ways. It took me pretty much ten years of serious engagement with the christian tradition before I felt it had ripened in me enough to step out again into a more universalist space. It just took me that much time to feel I could speak its language as my own. I grew up amongst the kind of liberal Quakers who hadn't much common language for spiritual matters, and little rootedness in the larger christian tradition had conveyed itself to me until I encountered African and American Friends in international contexts who were much clearer about their connection to scripture and the common origins in judeo-christian practice - 'primitive christianity revived' and all that.

The kind of oracular experience that I have no hesitations about, for comparison, is for example that anchored by a good friend who has centred her life around being in the psycho-spiritual space where life-changing conversations happen. She's great, she is so committed to being present to that possibility that she catalyzes it effectively; the gravitational effect of her repeated and practiced intentions facilitate the opening of the answering space to the questions I bring. It has felt exactly right whenever I have gone to her space with a current question - and emerged from that space with a confident graps of the next clue. Also, I get really good results from journalling and dreamwork on the questions that I am carrying.

Why do these feel so different from consulting an artificial oracle? I suppose the Quaker framework has given me a bias against any artificial means: perhaps I have an inner conviction that the truest, deepest way for me would be to take the opportunities when I am tempted to consult an oracle and to use those to be present to myself, and find the truth emerging from that presence unmediated. I think these might be opportunities for example where I could be engaging with what I find most uncomfortable and am seeking to avoid (including for example unpleasant tasks that need to be done: must go outside in the cold right now and feed the hens and change their water.)

I have a conviction that the choice I have made, to live for the truth, means I should always choose the deeper way. But I find myself weak and limited in many ways, and often struggle to decide how to allocate the efforts I can spare. I know, the living presence ought to help, no? When I make my way throught the tangle of spiritual work that I ought to have done, and find myself in that space of clairty below, I do find what seems to be achieving without doing. Perhaps this should be called, notes from a beginner on the path.

Any of this resonate with anyone else? Shed any light on it for me? Or do you have questions of your own about using divination?

A thread for films - reviews, comment, discussion

DannyL — Thu, 27 Dec 2012 08:33:29 -0500

I seem to be in the habit of writing short film reviews so I may as well make them public. I wrote this for elsewhere on the web, but here goes number 1..

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0116749/

A quick capsule review of a great film I saw last week, Gopalakrishan’s Kathapurushan (or “Man of the Story”). The film is about the political changes in Kerela from the 50s onwards as they impact on the life of one man, Kunjunni, the “man of the story”. It’s told in a very quiet, intimate way, which is of interest in itself in contrast to loud and hyperbolic Western cinema. A viewer without knowledge of Kerela’s history has to infer quite a lot. IMO, if one is a student of Indian religions in any way, you owe it to yourself to find out about the country’s culture and politics - religion doesn’t occur in a vacuum (I found out on reading up that Kerela was the first place anywhere in the world to elect a communist government, which was worth the price of admission for me). Here, we’re shown the transition from a traditional feudal way of living to the modern day. There were a couple of implicit themes I thought worth mentioning from a tantrik perspective - the first was the “character armour” of the hero. He wasn’t a big, strong, macho Western hero – he’s a quiet, soft boy, who’s sensitive and cries loads. It’s striking how Gopalakrishan sees presents this as a virtue. In the extras on the disc Gopalakrishnan mentions how people in rural India at that time would really let go when crying in a way that he finds modern society teaches us not to. Secondly, Kunjunni seems to draw a lot of his power from females (first his Mother and then his eventual wife – Sakti at work?). Thirdly, his gentleness of character is shown as akin to sainthood. The saint archetype seems such as part of Indian thinking that it finds it’s way into an ostensible political film. As a child, Kunjunni is shown absorbed by Nature (God?) in a simple moment, gazing at a goat. Gopalakrishnan is showing someone fundamentally at one with his environment. And what and environment to be at one with! Spectacular vistas of nature leap off the screen. Kerela’s natural beauty shines through and has made me determined to go there. Worth seeing if you get the chance.

Folktales: Fools and Clever Girls

EmberLeo — Tue, 23 Apr 2013 05:31:42 -0400

I've been developing my own concepts for a Tarot deck. One of the things that matters to me is that I'm more grounded in (mostly European) folktales and mythology than I am in Christian doctrine, Qabalah, or Western Ceremonial Magic.

So one of the things that I'm doing is looking at the cards, especially the Trumps, through that Folkloric filter. Another thing I'm looking at is recognizing where archetypes are gendered, and where that gendering is not necessary (i.e. anywhere where the biology of reproduction is not actually pertinent to the archetype), and where that gendering is imbalanced (i.e. where there's a traditional counterpart that was ignored).

I'm very fond of the Fool, and I've pondered how best to summarize in one image what I understand of the Fool. I identify very much with the Fool, with the child who gets by on honesty and luck and stumbling on the right answers by not being blinded by the expected answers.

But in pondering this, I recognize that in folklore, the Fool is primarily a boy - not a man, at least not until the end of the story, but usually not even then. But definitely not a girl, either.

Girls follow different patterns in folklore. Girls in fairy tales are usually in service to someone else rather than off finding their own fortunes. They are too often passively waiting for someone to save them, but when they aren't, they're usually solving problems consciously, fully recognizing what the expected answers are, and working with the circumstances they have to get what they need without getting caught outside the boundaries of the role assigned to them.

I find that VERY pertinent, and want to add a Trump to the set to go with the Fool illustrating this alternative protagonist along the Fool's Journey.

But I'd like specific story references to work with, and I'm having more trouble focusing on that than I'd like. So here's my question:

What are your favorite folktales with female protagonists?

All I ask is that they be stories with no known author. I don't require that they be European, or even per se old, as long as they're passed through unknown hands on their way to being recorded as a story. I want more material to work with in sorting out how to distil the essence of the character I have in mind.

-E-

The Recommend Me a Book Thread.

mardol — Fri, 12 Feb 2010 19:14:35 -0500

A general place to trade reading lists, give pointers, find something interesting, or settle the question "what shall I read next?".

I could do with a good book on Catholic ritual, and/or the structure and magical drama of the Mass. So if Grant, Evan, or anybody else could point me in the right direction I'd be very grateful. Thanks.

Magick + Tragedy + Doubt?

JonKent — Tue, 16 Apr 2013 10:56:43 -0400

I'm not nearly as advanced in anything magickal as nearly anyone on this board--
mostly theory, with a rather specific goal of practice, probably not translatable to most people's lives

but the events in Boston remind me of some of the questions I had post-9/11, and really, after every big, national, sort of tragic event

with so many people in the world who have some magickal talents, with so many psychics and sensitives....

could none of our "holy guardian angels" have spoken up about these things?

I mean, it's aces that my sigil "to meet a gorgeous redhead" worked, and that professionally, I draw upon aid from the spirits of Batman and Odin, and my invocation of Eros on Saturday night before the party was so powerful.

And I definitely get that my own playing with magick isn't attuned to divination of any sort. I wouldn't expect MY guardian's to speak up. I'm crap at hearing them at all, actually.

But with so much reaching into the ether, so many others who ARE attuned.... I'm always a little rattled that magicians don't seem to see/stop these big moments. It dangerously rattles my faith in the truth of divination, and the power of magick. For if everytime a sigil works I feel more and more confident, even after years.... everytime something big and un-predicted and not prevented happens, I lose more than a few servitor's worth of faith.

Anyone else?
Thoughts?
Help?

Mind-Expanding/Enlightening Movies

BlackManta — Sun, 08 Feb 2009 18:57:42 -0500

What films have you found to be particularly challenging, thought-provoking, and/or awe-inspiring?

My personal list:

1. El Topo (dir. Alejandro Jodorowsky, 1970)
2. Spring, Summer, Fall, Winter...and Spring (dir. Kim Ki-duk, 2003)
3. Being There (dir. Hal Ashby, 1979)
4. The Man Who Fell to Earth (dir. Nicolas Roeg, 1976)
5. Fantastic Planet (dir. Rene Laloux, 1973)

Game of Thrones

Gypsy Lantern — Wed, 18 May 2011 16:52:53 -0400

This is a thread to talk about the HBO series "Game of Thrones".

I'm enjoying it. I'm five episodes in, and I've actually started reading the book as the story grabbed me and I wanted a new engrossing page turner for the commute into work. I'm slightly further ahead in the book than where the series is at, although a couple of things happened in the last episode that haven't happened in the book yet. I won't give away any spoilers from the book in this thread though.

Tyrion, the dwarf, is my favourite character. Peter Dinklage owns every scene he's in. I like the complexity of it, and how they just keep piling on the characters and the intrigue with every episode. I like how there's this sustained tension, with badness happening beyond the Wall that we don't really know anything about yet, badness happening at the court that we don't really understand yet, and the whole platinum haired bird and her barbarian thing happening in the south. It gives the sense that everything is on the verge of going massively bad from all directions, but for the time being, there's this frayed tension on borrowed time.

African Diasporic Traditions 101

Princess — Sat, 31 Jan 2009 18:28:12 -0500

So, some people are interested in African Diasporic Traditions. Some people don't know much about ADTs. Somepeople fall right in the middle of that Venn diagram. This is the thread for asking questions about ADTs so that clever people can answer. If you've got questions about Vodoun, Santeria, Candomble or other similar religions come ask them here. Hopefully our humble ignorance will entice workers in these fields to aid us.

Ember, very kindly, helped set me straight about some stuff in the the Ritual-a-tron thread. I've still got questions about a relationship between a Power and it's paths. If there is a Legba, the Legba and my Legba, how do these three things interact? I've seen people write about their own individual spirit x and a generic spirit x. What's the relationships between these entities? Is it similar to Wicca, where one Goddess has many pictures/aspects? Or are there multiple similar spirits sharing a name? Or is it a third something?

The Rap Thread Yo.

al gremlin — Mon, 10 Oct 2011 21:39:51 -0400

From Wu Tang mysticism to kabbalistic horrorcore, from braggadocio invocations to profound meditations on language, rap has an incredibly high instance of "occult" content - some is undoubtedly affected and there because, yknow, it sounds really cool, but equally there seems plenty that comes from an authentic engagement with something of substance. I'd love us to share our favourite beats and raps onna mystical tip.

One of the things I love about rap is the ability to impart a lot of information. Here's an example to kick this off.

(Basically a rundown of The Golden Bough in rhyme.)

Fantasy Book Disappointments

quantum — Tue, 10 Jan 2012 12:09:04 -0500

I'm writing sci-fi at the moment and so I'm of course reading nothing but fantasy books, I really enjoyed the Song of Ice and Fire series and since ripping through it have been casting about for something to follow it. Many ASOIAF fans discuss what to read next so I got some recommendations, and also found a few on the web generally, and had a couple recommended here too.
I've been disappointed. I tried the first book of Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time and it was terrible, I read Eddings years ago and it was ok-ish, I like Gemmell but have read them all, Terry Goodkind is a scumbag so I won't read his stuff, I read some Donaldson a few years ago and it was awful, RA Salvatore looks dreadful, all the Dragonlance etc. RPG spinoffs are worthless obvs. and I am on the last few pages of the first Malazan book which everybody recommends (Gardens of the Moon) and I hate it. (A black skinned angsty elven antihero with white hair and a big magic sword? Srsly?)

I thought my expectations were just too high until the other week when I picked this up at my local library- The Curse of Chalion by Lois McMaster Bujold, absolutely excellent, better than Game of Thrones but weirdly unknown (which only threw the Malazan book into sharper relief) so I thought I'd start a thread here.

Have you been disappointed by a fantasy book recently? Or the state of the genre in general? Or conversely have you discovered a gem I should read?

Cult Cinema

Evan — Sun, 02 Oct 2011 19:52:42 -0400

Clips from your favorite cult cinema classics. Shaw Brothers Kung Fu movies. Sean Connery in a loincloth in Zardoz. Hammer horror.

And this, one of my favorites. Along with Taxi Driver and Midnight Cowboy, the ultimate "NY in decay in the 1970s" movie. And a retelling of Anabasis.

Punk

Evan — Sat, 04 Jun 2011 18:49:42 -0400

With all of the music topics we have, none for punk?

Well, here it is, then.

And let's start with pre-punk in New York.

Start with the Stones, add glam and more heroin than you can possibly imagine, and you get The New York Dolls.

Start with Mick Jagger and add Rimbaud and you get Patti Smith.

As she sang "Jesus died for somebody's sins but not mine" as a guest on Saturday Night Live, it turned midnight, and Easter morning.

Start with a Phil Spector girl group, move them to Queens, double the speed, and you get the Ramones.

Start with the Grateful Dead, subtract half the acid, double the intelligence, add Verlaine (Tom) and Brian Eno, and you get Television.

Filk and Parody - The music of geekery and fandom

EmberLeo — Tue, 17 Jan 2012 21:59:07 -0500

In addition to the folk music, celtic rock 'n' reel, show tunes, protest songs, and everyday radio rock, I grew up with a lot of filk and parody. This is because I grew up attending science fiction and fantasy conventions, and otherwise surrounded by geeks who liked to get creative with lyrics, and sometimes *gasp* original composition, in obscure referential ways.

Filk has a reputation for being cheesy, poorly performed, and poorly produced. It's the Fanfic of music - literally. And in the same way that there's actually well written fanfic and well-drawn fan art out there, there's actually well written and produced Filk as well.

I can't say her singing voice is beautiful, but Leslie Fish has put a lot of Rudyard Kipling's poetry to music, and that's some of my favorite material. Bob Kanefsky writes hilarious comedy filk.

But the two that have been running rampant through my mind for the last week, and thus prompting this thread, are:

Wicked Girls Saving Ourselves:

The song is by Seanan McGuire, sung here by Vixy and Tony. There are other vids that include Seanan's singing, but I think this one has better sound quality.

Mal's Song:

Proof I'm not the only one who gets frustrated when an opening theme song to a good show only has a chorus and no verses. ;p

-E-

Dead Fandoms

XK — Mon, 14 Nov 2011 11:50:00 -0500

It's not a cult following or maybe just a very specialized cult following. Very very specialized. Meaning it is you and and your friends reminiscing about a show/anime that is now DEAD. Or maybe you are like me and getting into it years after it is over thanks to the power of the intertubes.

This is the correct thread for shows/anime luv that don't need independent discussions because they are OVER AND DONE.

I'll start with the anime Soul Eater that Liger and Shin got me into. I haven't finished it yet so please no spoilers beyond episode 39 (so close to being finished *sobs).

There's so much weird ass stuff in here! Adult themes against a spiky goofy cut out style. Betrayal, child abuse, madness, adultery, divorce, seduction and custom CHOPS.

Power of Myth in RL -- Monarch as Catalyst

moon_custafer — Sun, 03 Mar 2013 20:25:48 -0500

Just thought I'd link to the interesting discussion currently taking place on Making Light re "the myth of the Finding of the True King (or Queen)," and the practical need for a figure to inspire people. I also really want to see the recent Dutch film Koning van Katoren which they mention during the discussion - it looks quite wonderful, and 'bringing the people together" is one of my surefire tearjerking tropes.